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• This sucks. I’m a young professional who just moved back to Tampa in hopes of achieving good business prospects.

  Comment by Marcus — July 6, 2007 @ 9:28 am

• I am a young professional who is planning on leaving next year. Tampa has too thin of a social scene for people my age. Your only regular choices are bars that are like the ones I went to in college. There are far too few performance offerings, maybe one a week, and except for Dali and Graphicsudio, visual art events are not worth the effort to attend.
  I work a lot with the arts community and am starting to believe that this is more of a demand problem than a supply issue. Tampa has a very surface culture, where people care more about the perceptions of things than the reality. That’s why the Dubliner is not Irish, Hyde Park Cafe is not a Cafe, and the last time I went to the Hyde Park Jazz Fest there was no jazz. The majority is not interested in things that are interesting, so social entrepreneurs get little reward for breaking out of the mold in trying to attract young people.
  Tampa’s young scene is built around young professionals who are interested primarily in drinking and sports, which works fine for local grads, but is not going to attract or retain young people that want something more from their city.

  Comment by Anonymous — July 6, 2007 @ 9:42 am

• Being involved in many different YP organizaitons. I find this amusing. Pinellas has many arts based YP groups that are great organizations. It seems as if the article is focusing on Tampa and Hillsborough. Again for all the talk of regionalism, people from Tampa can not seem to cross the bridge. For all the talk of a liveable, event, happen’ downtown all you have to do is go to St. Petersburg, Dundien or Safety Harbor. Why is everything always about Tampa?

  Comment by James Raulerson — July 6, 2007 @ 10:23 am

• This article leaves much to be desired. The metrics Forbes used for determining livability for the young professional are hardly robust. The school-based diaspora is a cross-section of six (!) schools that are hardly a reasonable sampling of the professional newbie population. No inclusion of state schools? Seriously? Then they use Forbes-defined so-called great corporations. If you’re not on that list, then you’re corporata-non-grata. Next, I’ll give them the salary point. Surely there is lots to be desired here in that respect, and wage gains have lagged cost-of-living gains in comparison to most of the rest of the country, but we are also skewed downward due to the seasonality of our service-based economy. Finally, and perhaps most laughable, is the metric of never-married folks in their 20s and 30s. How does this measure the fun factor? Are married people boring? Are all singles more fun and hip? Show me more data that link never-married to livable cities. I’d rather use metrics that have been more traditionally linked to the creative cities, such as green spaces, art galleries, and music offerings to determine the fun factor fortitude of a place rather than if somebody is married or not.

  FYI, I’m 27, male, never-married, Ivy league educated, a scientist, college prof, musician and avid outdoorsman. An archtype of the creative movement, according to R. Florida, and I choose to live here, based on myriad factors that many northern cities could never provide. What value is year-round outdoor access to a healthy young’n? What value is having world-class museums in a one-hour radius, without the crowds? What value is a cornucopia of beaches and parks and rivers?

  The Forbes study is myopic. But it is Forbes … not exactly a bunch of visionaries there in the first place!

  Comment by Michael — July 6, 2007 @ 10:26 am

• For one thing, these responses seem more like spam and advertisements than comments or opinions. Personally, I can understand the low ratings for Tampa, and I would also venture to guess, FL in general. The salaries here are about 10 years behind the rest of the country. I took a 50% cut in pay moving here from Pittsburgh, PA in 2001 and still make the same amount 6 years later. There is no doubt the state caters to an older, and much wealthier group. When the Chief of Police in one of the wealthiest counties in the state is publicly begging them to increase salaries (from a whopping 28K, mind you!!) so his staff can afford to live there; and the majority votes “no”, you’ve got some major problems. Don’t get me wrong, I love FL, but I’ve also had to basically accept the fact that I will never get close to living the lifestyle of our previous generation living here. I just wish they’d keep in mind it’s this generation that is subsidizing a means for their social security we’ll probably never get to enjoy. And if I hear, “that’s the price you pay to live in paradise” one more time……well, I’m sure you can guess my response!

  Comment by Linda — July 6, 2007 @ 10:35 am

• I’m 45 and I used to live in Cleveland, OH and let me tell you living here is a PICNIC compared to there. However, I telecommute and if I wasn’t being paid a northern salary I wouldn’t be able to afford a house here, with the insurance and taxes the way they are. It certainly dims the long-term prospects for staying…

  Comment by Tom Z — July 6, 2007 @ 11:08 am

• I completely agree with the article (except for the part about it being an older person’s town). I grew up here and know how far we’ve come over the years, but in terms of providing a place where the young professional can build a career and work their way up the ladder…we just aren’t there yet. My husband spent two years traveling out of town for work, while trying to find a local job at his level of management with the right pay before he found something. The only reason he didn’t go to another city (and he had opportunities) was because I wouldn’t let him. I also have friends with multiple masters degrees who have left due to the same problem. This area is great for the small entreprenuer looking to do his own thing, or the salesperson who doesn’t need to have a local office to do their job, but this place is still a call center/back office operations town and not a corporate opportunity kind of town. I do agree with James, however, that there are plenty of cultural and social activities for young people, as well as being a great environment long term to eventually settle and raise a family.

  Comment by Sara Nicholson — July 6, 2007 @ 1:05 pm

• I think this analysis was weak. First of all, claiming that the desirability of an area can be measured by tracing the migration patterns of graduates from six colleges is silly. There are many reasons why a relatively small number of people who graduate from the same college will end up in the same place. “Old boy” networks are probably being measured here, as well as the birthplaces of the attendees of the six colleges (which pull students from around the nation). It would not surprise me that people move to expensive private schools and then move back home when they are done. So that portion of the analysis can be dismissed. As for single persons aged 20-35, what is that really measuring? That in some areas of the country, people marry younger than others? Creativity doesn’t just flow from single people. Married people have been known to have ideas, too. In fact, couldn’t places with a large percentage of young, unmarried people be places where people don’t want to settle down and build a life? The transience of young, unmarried people may be a negative, and the settled nature of married people may be a positive, but this article doesn’t even ask that question. Using the Forbes 600 best industry list implies that the list somehow has meaning beyond mere bragging rights. How would the results of this analyis have changed if the Forbes best 1,000, or 2,000 or 10,000 companies were used instead? The only meaningful measure in the study is the review of salaries as compared to living expenses. This could be an issue in attracting and retaining younger workers. But, the fact that Tampa scores low here could be taken to mean that the area is so desirable to live in that employers can underpay workers and still attract them, while other areas need to pay higher wages to overcome other, unmeasured problems. So, the fact that Tampa fares less well at attracting the graduates of 6 out of hundreds of excellent universities across the nation, does not contain many of the 600 hand-picked “best” companies that Forbes says are worth having, and has young people that marry earlier than those in some other states does not worry me at all. I would like to see the cost of living get under control, either through increased wages or through lowered housing costs, but that is the only legitimate issue raised in the article. Overall, it was very disappointing.

  Comment by Jim Palma — July 6, 2007 @ 1:06 pm

• I feel Tampa has many things going on for young professionals but it is often hard to know what there is to do on any given night. One great resource for young professionals to learn more about what is going on is http://www.TampaOptions.com. There are hundreds of groups and organizations in Tampa Bay but more visibility needs to be given to all the great resources that are offered!

  Comment by Rachel Cantor — July 6, 2007 @ 1:26 pm

• Whoever wrote the piece probably flew in for a day, poked around downtown Tampa and saw just The Hub, and well…not much else. I live in Tampa, came from Chicago, and I do find it frustrating that there is no community gathering place except malls and “clubs” neither of which are my scene. I decided to stay in Tampa because of the new Downtown/Channelside Keller Williams office…I worked for the U.S. EPA in Chicago, and I’d like to work toward curbing sprawl and getting YPs to move downtown-ish. Once the people are there, the public transportation and amenities will follow. But, I do find myself more and more attracted to St. Pete and Dunedin, where people are much friendlier and there is more of a sense of community. If anyone else is interested in discussing sprawl, green building, etc, pls contact me at nickautryyahoocom.

  Comment by Nick Autry — July 7, 2007 @ 7:04 am

• This is my argument on a daily basis! It’s not about Tampa per se, but the whole Bay Area demographic. It’s so segmented with no reliable metro system…which makes it the “not so” party town. You have Ybor, but you better behave…then, you can drive 20 miles to St. Pete…woo hoo what fun! St. Pete wants to be known for it’s attractiveness, Tampa wants to be known for it’s attractions…it would fair better to bridge the gap, raise the pay and try inclusion rather than exclusion. if you’re trying to attract more than CEOs and Soccer moms. Hence, even Donald Trump thought we needed work and jetted outta here!

  Comment by Cornelius — July 7, 2007 @ 4:34 pm

• Its about economic opportunity and money - as in pay checks - no good jobs - no liven - I’m leavin!

  - a major part of the the probelm is
  the have very well paind economic development offices in downtown Tampa:

  1. The City - Mark Huey

  2. The GTChamber - Marvin Hughes

  3. The County - Gene Gray

  Study what they have done and what they are doing and ask yourselves -
  - are they winners?
  - are they losers? or
  - are they a type of high paid govenment employee - who is just going along to get along until retirement - and doing enough to get by on - …the just plain old vanilla managers…??

  If they were successful - we would have more YP LIVENs and less YP LEAVINs…

  …do the homework!
  …do the discovery!

  Robert Bose
  Florida Bauhaus

  Comment by bauhaus — July 8, 2007 @ 4:00 am

• I believe we need to look at Sarasota and the Bradenton area and the major news needs to include this area because it is young and vibrant and very forward thinking and it is attracting many young profesionals but unfortunatelly even the PHDs that write for Fortune mags always seem to forget this metro area…it is not the South but part of the Caribean and should be talked up as such!!!

  Comment by E — July 8, 2007 @ 7:06 pm

• [...] Your Opinion:http://www.creativetampabay.com/archives/230 [...]

  Pingback by CreativeTampaBay.com » 07.09.07 — July 9, 2007 @ 2:56 am

• Im not sure I understand any of these “polls” Forbes lists. I am a college grad, and after graduating I had offers in the top 5 cities, BUT I found LIVING in those cities un bearable, so I chose Tampa…all the amenities of a big city, but on a much smaller scale..and there is nothing wrong with that..instead of a dozen historic movie houses, Tampa Bay has 2, instead of 25 or more museums, Tampa Bay has about a dozen, instead of many histopric neighborhoods, Tampa has about 4, see where Im going…Tampa has most major sports, concert venues, 9 months of paradise weather..so to each his own I always say…I always want to VISIT the top 10 cities, but wouldn’t want to LIVE there.

  Comment by Rick — July 9, 2007 @ 5:09 am

• After spending a week on vacation in Chicago, I feel very thankful to be a young professional here in Tampa, but I can also see where we need our greatest improvements if we want to attract more YPs. The first being mass transit…I wish the city would stop talking about it and make some clear efforts to research possibilities for our area. The second thing I noticed was the amount of festivals going on in Chicago and its suburbs. I think Tampa has tons of culture as well but maybe we don’t do as good of a job promoting all of the cultural opportunities available here. The last major thing I noticed is how Tampa lacks a thriving live music atmosphere. I’m talking about “House of Blues” type places, smaller venues where you can see up and coming artists in a more intimate performance. There are obviously many more differences but those are just the ones that really stood out to me. The things I’m grateful for in Tampa though are the weather, being near the water (Chicago has Lake Michigan but YPs don’t really take advantage of it), less traffic, and finally, I believe that a YP has a much better chance of growing in Tampa’s professional market than in a huge city like Chicago. I’m proud to be here, and I’m definitely staying.

  Comment by Jenny — July 9, 2007 @ 5:58 am

• I am the mother of a well-educated young professional who unfortunately lives in Dallas where he was offered a fabulous IT job. For many years I was aware that he may have to leave given his area of interest. To help change that, a group of us in CreativeTampaBay commissioned the “Young & Restless” study back in 2004. We then issued a “call to action” to the community and urged companies, economic development orgs, non-profits and people to put out the welcome mat to young profs. Engage them, respect their talents. Let them speak freely of their complaints — and LISTEN to them. We have done that, but clearly we need to continue and rededicate ourselves to retaining the sweet spot in our workforce — 24 to 35-year-old college grads.

  Now CreativeTampaBay is trying to link the realities of our demographics — the growing migration of retiring baby boomers — with our desire to be a place where the young & restless can find good jobs and enjoy a great lifestyle. Time to look at the glass as half-full! What an enormous opp young people have for tapping into the affluence of this new type of retiree. Existing companies need to capitalize on this market in our backyard; new companies need to be formed. I started a business when I was 25 — it’s actually easier to be entrepreneurial when you’re young and the opporutnity cost is low. Think about it, my young and talented friends. Here’s what else I have to say about it: http://www.opinionstogoonline.com/read.asp?ArtID=1375.

  Comment by Deanne Roberts — July 9, 2007 @ 6:47 am

• Sorry for making a 2nd post, but I wanted to follow up on what Jenny had to say re: her recent visit to Chicago. Mass transit there, yes, is awesome. My car would sit for weeks at a time. The city (Tampa) is working on some plans, but they are really dragging their feet. Karen Kress is an awesome person, very proactive, and is in charge of mass transit issues for the Tampa Downtown Partnership. It’s been a viability issue…no one is using the mass transit options in place…the El in Chicago can almost pay for itself. Different cities, different issues. But what I really wanted to speak about was Jenny bringing up the number of free festivals in Chicago. Every weekend, there is something fun to do. The Belmost-Sheffield music fest, Blues Fest, Jazz Fest, Mayfest…the list literally goes on and on and on. WMNF’s Heat Wave here is an awesome event, but is a fund raiser for them and is quite expensive to just try and drop by to hear music. If anyone would care to join me in trying to push for a fun neighborhood festival that could be the start of something bigger, I could use the help…otherwise, I’ll do some research and try to go it alone. nickautryATyahooDOTcom

  Comment by Nick Autry — July 9, 2007 @ 7:47 am

• I am a young professional who has lived in Tampa for 6 years. I chose to live here, and I love it. There is so much to do it’s hard to choose. I think the article has several flaws. For one, they are assuming that large companies are the ones young, creative professionals want to work for. There was no measurement of small and/or locally owned business which very well may be the very thing that attracts people to a place like Tampa. I also think the measurement they used with “top business schools” is greatly flawed. They samples top ranked schools which tend to place students in specific parts of the country. The local universities were not even asked to give information to that survey. I also wonder why they removed college graduates who remain in their hometown from the survey. Perhaps there is a reason they stay in their hometown after graduation - because it’s a good place to live and they like it there!

  Comment by Megan — July 9, 2007 @ 11:47 am

• I am, a little sadly, leaving the Tampa Baty area in August for New York. We arrived here four years ago with such high hopes and although we have seen massive improvements we just can’t afford to wait until the area becomes the vibrant, creative area we are sure it will be one day. As a professional photographer I have found it difficult to make a living because I pick and choose my work, and just will not shoot weddings, seniors, old people amd dogs. My fault I know. But this is potentially such a great area: the arts scene in Saint Petersburg is truly of national importance and I am convinced the St Pete will be the place to be, the Monte-Carlo of Florida, in the not so distant future. So, after one last bathe in the warm waters of the Gulf, I shall gulp down a Pino Colada, pack up my gear, wipe a tear from my eye and head back to the smoke.

  Comment by David — July 9, 2007 @ 3:39 pm

• Let’s be honest here about what Tampa and Florida as a whole is and what it isn’t. Note in the Forbes article- Orlando and Miami were virtually last in the list as well.

  Will Tampa ever be an Atlanta or Chicago for young professionals? I don’t think so. It’s not what Tampa (or Orlando or Miami) is. It is not in the essence of Tampa to be a bustling, culturally and intellectually cosmopolitan Mecca with high density housing and smart mass transit. It is not our history; it is not our heritage, and for the great many today, it is not what they come to this city and state for. And besides, there are just too many darned mosquitoes and hurricanes.

  Sure, to the first look, Tampa and the other large cities of Florida may appear somewhat sophisticated, but as someone earlier pointed out- “Tampa has a very surface culture, where people care more about the perceptions of things than the reality.” I think this has a nugget of truth. Residents of this state have always been selling the perception more than the reality.

  Why won’t Tampa be an Atlanta or Chicago?

  For starters, Florida’s core businesses are and will always be Tourism, Real Estate and Retirees. The jobs in these industries are generally underpaid, unstable, and/or undesirable to the progressively minded young professional. I would be willing to bet that EASILY more than 60% of Florida’s job’s cater either directly or indirectly to these core areas. Another 15% or more are in temporary business services.

  Secondly, the one industry that is essential to YP growth is the Information Industry (Media, Arts and Architecture, Technology and Sciences fall under this). Unfortunately Florida has seen a growth decline of more than 16% in these fields since 2000. Florida is losing its good paying jobs- their flying out the window. Or should I say flying away in the hurricanes. Just about ALL of Florida’s impressive job growth is low paying and low quality.

  Thirdly, all these semi-wealthy Retirees we have, and will continue to get, don’t like paying taxes. And we may think that it’s a good thing to have no state tax, however, as a result most of Florida’s taxes go to the federal government which tends to leave the state revenues lower which directly effects transportation (mass transit) and education funding- two areas that are important to the inspiring YP.

  Florida has a unique culture all its own and is a wonderful place for artists and writers to paint and write about if there is housing to be had. But Florida will always be short on high paying jobs. It’s fundamentally about the sun and the sand and taking it easy.

  So enjoy the Tampa for what it is, before it’s submerged by global warming.

  Comment by James — July 9, 2007 @ 5:54 pm

• I’m a 33 year old writer/editor. After nearly four years of consideration, my wife and I recently relocated to St. Pete from the San Francisco Bay area. Many acquaintances questioned our judgment in moving to Florida. So why did we move? Precisely because this area offers a mixture of opportunity and backwardness. With our experiences and education, my wife had no problem landing a good paying job. I’ve also seen quite a few contract opportunities for what I do as well. And, given my ability to telecommute, I’ve been steadily employed ever since arriving here.
  Though I grew up in South Florida, I’ve lived in NYC, San Francisco, New Orleans, Indianapolis, parts of Europe…I can honestly say that our quality of life here compares very favorably against all of those places. Here I’m able to buy an old bungalow within walking distance of a rejuvenated downtown St. Pete, where there are cafes, bars, restaurants, a wonderful marina, etc. Moreover, as this Web site demonstrates, there is an active community of creative and intelligent people living here. It might be a long way from the artistic hipster meccas of Williamsburg or the Mission, but that’s okay. There’s less pretension, less competition - and more time to slow down and enjoy life. Not to say there aren’t serious issues here - lack of environmental concern, mass transit, curbside recycling - to name a few. But instead of retreating to a more progressive area, I’m willing to dig-in and help initiate change where it’s really needed.

  Comment by Tim — July 12, 2007 @ 6:20 am

• I’ve been here 14 years. Staying only because my ex has custody of my son and we’re real close. When he goes to College, I’m going back to Reno or SF. The money to be made here is the worst. I’m a long time Graphic Artist, raised in Northern California…lived in Honolulu and Reno-Tahoe also. Yeah there are sports and drinking and I enjoy both. Girls are harder to find and relate to here. Kind of a cheerleader/princess thing going on…The 7 month stinking hot and humid Summers are not to my liking either.

  Comment by Denny Umphreys — July 15, 2007 @ 4:00 pm

• [...] New York, LA, Boston, Washington DC, all have a strong identity and brand. Younger folks are clearly more likely to base decisions based on things like fashion, brand, vibe, reputation, etc.  Tampa Bay lacks that same fashion (at least overtly) and struggles with any perceptible identity. Tampa Bay is more likely to appeal to those who are likely to look beyond fashion and hype.  This is validated by the comments posted on http://www.creativetampabay.com/archives/230. We all implicitly recognize that aspect of our community.  But a young, hot shot graduate, may be more likely to want to experience that vibe of NYC or LA, because that is exciting.  Tampa Bay lacks a certain glamour and that is not something that should be discounted. Glamour has a power and an allure.  That is something that Tampa Bay should cultivate.  [...]

  Pingback by CreativeTampaBay.com » — July 16, 2007 @ 2:13 am

• I tend to agree with “James — July 9, 2007” – the ultimate reality of the situation is that Florida in general (not just Tampa/St. Petersburg), at its core, specializes in tourism, retirement, real estate and agriculture. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this at all, but it is the reality of Florida.

  The main commodity that Florida holds dear and advertises is the idea of “comfort and paradise”. This is what Florida sells: fun in the sun, warm weather and beaches; a slow paced haven for the wealthy and retired. Not only is this what Florida sells, it’s a mentality that’s ingrained in the Florida culture. Again, there is nothing wrong with this. Every city in every country in the world has something unique to offer and has its own unique culture.

  I live in New Tampa. A Super Wal-Mart, Super Target and most recently a “BJ’s” were built (among other things). I’ve been in Tampa since 1994, and it won’t be until 2008 or ’09 until a book store will be built up here. This is typical Florida: things like book stores, museums, and the arts have a lower priority – their either few and far between or hidden away instead of advertised.

  The simple reality is that Florida has invested so much for so many decades in this one direction (comfort and paradise). Is Florida stuck in its ways? Will Florida adapt to the tides of change? Can Florida merge the best of Chicago/New York/Atlanta with the best of Florida? Anything is possible, but only time can tell.

  As it is today, if you’re an ambitious professional in the Information Industry (media, arts, science, technology) and you live in Tampa, I completely understand why you’d do what most YP do: leave Florida, build your career, make tons of money, and then retire to Florida when you’re ready.

  Comment by Chris — July 16, 2007 @ 8:28 am

• Tampa and professional are an oxymoron. Unless you consider Call Center employee a profession; at least not in this country.
  -Tom

  Comment by Tom — July 20, 2007 @ 8:26 am

• hey nick! how about dropping the prices of your units in channelside, cause saleries for us yp are not going to meet your prices, and untill then, the condos sit empty.

  Comment by s — July 23, 2007 @ 10:32 am

• I’m a college student and there is plenty to do here!Also our job market is among the best, low unemployment, etc!

  Comment by Nick — August 6, 2007 @ 6:18 pm

• Hey, thanks for letting me post.
  I am having a hard time finding employment.

  I am seeking full time employment here in St. Petersburg. I a m Graphic Artist who fall back skills for slow times is USNTA Tennis Instructor. Specializing in Teaching Beginners.

  My Graphic certification are Quark Xpress and Adobephoto shop. Samples and bio are on my webpage. I looking to Design catalogs or typeset for major deadlines. I can email my Resume and i have Professional experience. My portfolio has no recent projects. I want to be the next Andy Warhol with all your help and hopefully my help. Thank you, Artist Rita Ferdinando

  Comment by Rita — May 16, 2008 @ 10:57 am